Zillow appeals to MLSs for direct listings feeds
Freshness of data initially cited as reason to bypass ListHub
By Paul Hagey, Monday, July 9, 2012.
Moldy orange image via Shutterstock.Real estate portal Zillow has appealed to multiple listing services to provide Internet Data Exchange (IDX) listings data directly to the site, originally claiming that it can "sometimes be days" before syndicators like ListHub provide new or revised listings to the site.
Zillow has since backed down from that claim, acknowledging that ListHub -- which is owned by Zillow competitor Move Inc. -- provides Zillow with updates every 12 hours, and has offered to increase the frequency to four times a day.
Bob Bemis -- a former MLS CEO who joined Zillow in February as vice president of partner relations -- recently emailed about 50 of the nearly 200 MLSs that provide listings to Zillow through ListHub, requesting a direct data feed.
"While this channel is convenient, it is not always the speediest and many of the complaints we receive about listing freshness can be traced to the speed with which new or updated listing information reaches Zillow," Bemis said in the June 29 email. "Because of the multiple hands through which the data passes, it can sometimes be days before a revised listing reaches us for posting."
The MLSs that received the email also provide IDX listing data to a Diverse Solutions, a company that powers websites for agents that Zillow acquired in November for $7.8 million.
"One of the solutions we are pursuing is to contract for that same data feed directly from the MLS," Bemis said. "This would allow Zillow to refresh our database multiple times each day, rather than on the much slower schedule we must follow now."
But in a follow-up email three days later, Bemis acknowledged that he had "made a misstatement" in implying that updates to listings could take days to reach Zillow through ListHub.
In addition to providing updates every 12 hours, Bemis said in a July 2 email, "ListHub has offered to increase that frequency to four times per day, and we are currently working to implement that accelerated schedule."
If the request for MLSs to provide IDX listing data to Zillow directly is about more than just the freshness or accuracy of listings, industry observers are wondering what other motives the company might have.
Bemis was unavailable for comment at press time. But his memo reflected Zillow's act of "opening ourselves up to receiving feeds in different ways," said Katie Curnutte, Zillow's director of communications.
Zillow's desire to bypass syndicators could stem at least in part from the fact that ListHub is owned by Realtor.com operator Move, which acquired the syndicator's parent company in September, 2010.
Last year, Zillow secured its ability to continue to access listings syndicated by ListHub, entering into a long-term agreement that called for Zillow to provide page view and lead generation metrics to ListHub in return. At the time, ListHub was providing 2 million listings to Zillow.
ListHub declined to comment on Zillow's appeal to MLSs for direct listing feeds.
But Saul Klein, vice president of another big listing syndicator, Point2, told Inman News that if "the industry suddenly became aware of the derivative value around data," he could see how it "would be advantageous to have the middleman out."
Listing syndicators like ListHub and Point2 gather listing data from MLSs and brokers, and then send those listings to third-party real estate search sites like Zillow, Trulia and RealEstate.com.
ListHub and Point2 make money -- and provide value to their listings contributors -- by tracking listing activity and selling lead generation reports and website tools to brokers.
Brokers contributing listings to ListHub and Point2 can manage their listings from a centralized dashboard, opting in or out of having listings sent to specific sites. This functionality makes it convenient for contributors to manage where their listings appear.
ListHub gets listing data from more than 400 MLSs and associations and syndicates them to over 100 real estate search portals. Point2 gets listing data from 164 MLSs and associations and sends them to about 70 real estate sites.
Thanks to its relationship with the National Association of Realtors, Realtor.com operator Move Inc. gets listings from nearly all of the nation's more than 900 MLSs.
But third-party listing portals like Zillow, Trulia, and Homes.com "have to step up their offers if they want some kind of direct feed," said Gregg Larson of Clareity Consulting in an email to Inman News.
Homes.com, for example, has launched an MLS partner program "that delivers a number of valuable software tools and reports to participating MLS’s agents and brokers," Larson said. "They've had some success with that program, because they offered something of real value."
Zllow launched its own Partnership Platform in May, with the goal of improving listing accuracy by securing direct feeds from MLSs and brokerages. Addressing a sore point with some brokerages, Zillow pledged to display the listing agent and listing brokerage adjacent to listings, including contact information and links to broker, agent or MLS websites, free of charge.
In June, Zillow launched zPro (currently in Beta), a free program for brokers which prominently displays listing agent info and provides detailed weekly metrics reports, among other incentives.
Since acquiring Diverse Solutions, Zillow has also rolled out free IDX websites for paying "Premier Agent," advertisers, who totaled 18,616 at the end of March. The service costs $10 a month for agents who don't subscribe to Zillow's Premier Agent program.
But given the lack of incentives for MLSs, "I think they'll have very limited success," in obtaining direct feeds, Larson said. If an MLS agrees to provide IDX listings directly to Zillow, every other portal will request that data too, he said.
There are legitimate accuracy issues on third-party sites, which has created some heat in the syndication world, Larson said. Third-party sites can receive listings from up to 1,800 to 2,000 sources, he said. Sometimes there are duplicate listings. If there are duplicates, is there a clear order where one sourced listing will trump another?
The answer is often no, Larson said.
"You [third-party portals] want credible info, but you won't pay for it," said John Mosey, president of NorthStarMLS. They're asking for data, but not giving up anything in return, Mosey said. He says he did not receive a memo from Bemis, because Bemis already knew where Mosey stood on the issue.
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Submitted by Rick Belben on July 9, 2012 - 2:48pm.
If Zillow is so concerned with having the most up to date data maybe they should concern themselves first with getting rid of all the listings on their site that sold months and sometimes years ago.
Now that would be a great improvement.
You can almost always tell when someone calls you with homes from Zillow as when you look up the homes they have been of the market for many months.
It was not that long ago that even realtor.com only seemed to be updated once every 24 hours.
I am sure from the ability to sell agents leads it would be much more beneficial to have up to date listings.
It seems like they have made some progress since there recent new hires from the Broker side .I only hope Jay Thompson can completely straighten them out!!
Rick Belben
Belben Realty Group
Orlando Real Estate
Orlando MLS
Submitted by Jay Thompson on July 9, 2012 - 3:09pm.
"Sometimes there are duplicate listings. If there are duplicates, is there a clear order where one sourced listing will trump another?
The answer is often no, Larson said."
It is true we quite often will receive the same listing data from multiple sources, creating a challenge for us to know whose data to source on the site. However, there are indeed very clear business rules on the order in which we source listings. We will always look to Broker and/or MLS-sourced data first. Further, we have a very complex system in place that de-duplicates listing data on the site by using the address of the property. If there are further questions or feedback on this system, I welcome you to email partners@zillow.com and you will get a response.
Jay Thompson
Zillow
Director of Industry Outreach & Social Media
Submitted by Jay Thompson on July 9, 2012 - 3:11pm.
Rick - working on it! :)
Jay Thompson
Zillow
Director of Industry Outreach & Social Media
Submitted by Matt Carter on July 9, 2012 - 4:01pm.
Gregg Larson has a blog post up with more discussion...
Submitted by Sam DeBord on July 9, 2012 - 9:45pm.
It's highly unlikely that MLS organizations, whose dues-paying members are local real estate brokers, will think that it's a good idea to send a direct feed away to an unassociated 3rd-party website for free. Even if it were a paid subscription, the question that has to be asked: who really benefits?
If our goal is to educate consumers on the true market conditions in their local market, IDX sites from local real estate brokers still offer the best information. Sending home buyers away to a national 3rd-party portal, with erroneous foreclosure listings and dubious home value estimates scattered throughout, clearly does not meet the standard of benefitting real estate consumers.
Sam DeBord
Managing Broker, Realtor
SeattleHome.com - Coldwell Banker Danforth of Greater Seattle
Submitted by Tom Ellicott on July 10, 2012 - 3:19am.
As a premier Zillow agent who spends $1000-2000 per month with them, I can tell you that 99% of the leads are for expired and pending and contingent listings. Plus, they have some kind of foreclosure tracking system that sets ppl up to inquire about properties that have not hit the market and may never. It's just a shame. It will kill thier golden goose if they don't find a way to fix it. I've scaled my advertising back and will probably withdraw altogether. Plus, consumers who do make inquiries must be fatigued over it too.
Is this List Hub's fault? Why can't it be fixed?
Submitted by Anthony Gonzalez on July 10, 2012 - 6:27am.
How about we take our business back, demand our MLS systems, and make our brokers step up to provide a truly valued service to the agent that pays a lot of money for access to the system? My broker cannot even provide contracts in the cloud, and I know it’s not about the money. I’m not much of a betting man but I’m sure those Redfin buyers and sellers don’t even go to Zillow/Trulia for real estate information. It makes me crazy that all of these politically driven MLS providers charge huge fees and literally walk around thinking they provide a “great service to its members” when all they really provide is a Multiple listing database that I still can’t access with an iPad out in the field. My MLS dues exceed $1000 a year for 3 different MLS providers, and none of them share data, resources or regulations... What kind of service is that to me? I am sure it has everything to do with their own interest and not the interest of the paying member agent. The Broker/Agent is the reason why Zillow/Trulia is a business today. If the Broker and MLS would just step up and provide state of the art search engines like Redfin has done, we could shut down Zillow/Trulia as fast as they started. Don’t forget... Rich Barton started Zillow out of frustration for quality listing and community information. Let’s get to work, take our business back, and stop looking like ding bats out there. We have been fighting about these issues for 10 years! It is time to spend some of that membership money and agent split money to build truly amazing search sites for the consumer and the agent.
Submitted by Brian Larson on July 10, 2012 - 8:46am.
One important correction. Nothing that an MLS sends to Zillow (or any other non-brokerage site) is "IDX data." IDX data from any MLS is strictly for brokers who participate in that MLS to display on their own sites (or in mobile applications, thanks to a recent policy change).
The syndication feeds or third-party data fees that MLSs provide to ListHub or directly to folks like Zillow and Trulia are NOT IDX!!!
-Brian
Submitted by Brian Hunt on July 10, 2012 - 12:31pm.
Maybe they should consider joining each MLS before they start complaining about not getting their free information fast enough?
Submitted by Luke Glass on July 11, 2012 - 9:57am.
As noted in the article, ListHub provides listing updates to Zillow every 12 hours and we only supply active listings which are on the market. In response to Tom Ellcott's comment, the expired and off-market listings that you see on Zillow aren’t coming from ListHub. The problem is that rather than choosing to accept listings only from reliable MLS-authorized sources, such as ListHub, some publishers take listings from all manner of sources – agent website companies, virtual tour providers, and even companies which track homes with “pre-foreclosure” notices (these homes aren’t even on the market). This leads to the frustrations that you describe, for both Realtors and consumers.
The accuracy rate is high for listings distributed through MLS-connected platforms like ListHub. In the month of June, 2012 ListHub syndicated about 200m listings in total (about 1.5m listings to about 125 publisher websites). During that time, our technical support team received only 15 technical support cases related to accuracy issues for ListHub-distributed listings.
Submitted by Barbara Fields on July 14, 2012 - 4:19am.
I am also a Pro agent with Zillow. There are many great things about Zillow, but I also get many leads from Buyers for homes that sold months and years ago. It is almost a daily occurrence. It takes much time in researching these leads and in convincing Buyers that it is not active, is not on the market. When they reply "But Zillow SAYS it is for sale!" it is frustrating.
I enjoy the leads I get from Zillow as many are good, legitimate leads, but this aspect of it really needs to be taken care of.
Submitted by Marvin Shelley on July 14, 2012 - 5:57am.
I think Zillow gets listings off MLS for free???? Is that correct???? If so, Hey, it's free. Quit yer belly achin'.
If Zillow is paying the MLS' for listings, then I stand corrected.
Submitted by Marvin Shelley on July 14, 2012 - 6:02am.
To Barbara Fields - I leave solds on the various websites I use. When a buyer calls, I say," I;m sorry but that sold. What are you ooking for?"
Then I sell them something else.
I certainly do not consider a call on a sold listing a waste of time.
Submitted by Ruthmarie Hicks on July 14, 2012 - 7:02am.
If Zillow wants a direct feed from our MLS's then they should become BROKERS and join the MLS's they wish too - just like any other broker. I see no reason why any MLS in their right mind (of course they aren't all in their right minds) would give any 3rd party competitor something their members pay for for FREE. What nerve!
Of course, then Zillow would have to abide by the rules of the road and that would end things like Zestimates. They would actually have to play by NAR's rules - so I don't see that happening either.
I agree with some of the others. The MLS's should take back their information and stop providing listings to the likes of ZILLOW.
Submitted by Teresa Boardman on July 14, 2012 - 7:05am.
thank you John Mosey. I for one could care less if the third party sites have accurate data on them. they are for advertising and it isn't my problem. I don't think Zillow is a non profit they can afford to pay for our data.
Submitted by James Jenkins on July 14, 2012 - 7:12am.
Zillow, Trulia and all the rest have a serious problem with sold listings. I have had numerous inquiries for properties that have been sold for two or more years and in almost all cases the individual thinks you are incorrect when you tell them this and they never respond again.
Submitted by Charles Schubert on July 14, 2012 - 8:59am.
When are realtors going to wake up to the fact that the MLS data (That we both collect, input and then PAY FOR) should be exclusively for the agent! Allowing all these 3rd party distributors just undermines our value in the eyes of the public. If the NAR is not going to protect our efforts in this regard , maybe it is time we start our own non-profit listing service (since we collect all the data) which allows us benefit from the data we work so hard to obtain!
Submitted by Tim Ziifle on July 14, 2012 - 7:15pm.
Brilliant! Let's show the World and Zillow just how STUPID we REALTORS really are!
Let's continue to work and put in our time and efforts required to create OUR LOCAL MLS DATABASES and then ALLOW OUR LOCAL, STATE AND NATIONAL ASSOCIATION EXECUTIVES TO CONTINUE TO MARGINALIZE AND UNDERMINE OUR EFFORTS BY ALLOWING THEM TO SELL OUR INFORMATION OUT FROM UNDER US TO THESE OUTSIDE ENTITIES THAT WILL ULTIMATELY SELL "CUSTOMER LEADS" BACK TO US THAT WERE GENERATED SOLELY BECAUSE THEY NOW HAVE ACCESS TO OUR ENTIRE MLS DATABASE OF INFORMATION.
PLUS ZILLOW WILL BE ABLE TO NOW FINE TUNE THEIR COMPUTERIZED ESTIMATES WITH OUR ACTUAL REAL-TIME DATA TO MAKE THEMSELVES LOOK EVEN BETTER AND SMARTER TO THE CONSUMER THAN MOST REALTORS!
REALTORS HAVE TO BE THE DUMBEST INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS ON THE PLANET EARTH IF WE STAND BY AND ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN! WAKE UP!
Submitted by Jeff Geoghan on July 16, 2012 - 9:17am.
We as an industry allowed the "third party" growth to happen over the last decade with minimal strategic response. When NAR should have been expending time and $ to develop a Realtor-controlled public facing web solution, they left too much to Realtor.com. Then Realtor.com thought for a number of years that no other company could ever touch them for traffic.
Now that Zillow has successfully bypassed the industry and established itself in the consumer's mind, we are forced to deal with them. One of the last big hurdles for them is resolving the lack of sold data in RETS. Once they do they will be very close to eclipsing the MLS-driven IDX sites altogether, IMO.
But really, the next big question is who will be the first to list homes online outright? I personally think Zillow is driving for that end result. Frankly, so would I if I had the resources and web traffic. Or will it be Ebay first?
We as an industry are way behind. NAR as the only national-level Realtor organization needs to get out of the box and stay there if the we hope to avoid the fate of the video industry.
Submitted by Tina Fine on July 23, 2012 - 7:49am.
Very interesting comments by Geoghan and Ziifle. It's time to centralize all listing information, one database that everyone can access. Have the basic listing link back to a broker or agent website, but keep the centralized database, up to date, transparent and uniform. No reason to spend all the ad dollars on syndication and third party sites. The best way for brokers and agents and MLSs to keep their position is to pool their funds, and surpass Zillow and Trulia on the Technology front. The MLSs are still in a key position to call the shots if they take it.
Tina Fine CEO/homingCloud